Reflecting on Chapter 1: Kids Want to Know (pp. 1-18)

[Kristin Fontichiaro]

Add your thoughts and reflections here. You can also start a new discussion topic!

PS - If you haven't added yourself to the Connectivity Chart, how about doing it now? :)

[Beth Friese]

Hi everyone.

I am going to try to kick things off with an "official" discussion post. Don't take this example as any sort of formula for how to organize or express your own thoughts about the book. I'm just going to dive in!

I found myself nodding my head many times while reading this chapter. I do think students have many things that they want to know and learn about. I agree that "the more kids learn, the more they wonder" (p. 12). I can imagine that explosion of curiosity as it happens.

The examples of classrooms fascinated me, especially because the inquiry topics were clearly drawn from the students and their life experiences and curiosities. No district curriculum guide requires that students study their crumbling buildings. (This example also reminded me of the bravery that it takes to support inquiry at times.) Some of the inquiry topics arose spontaneously, and others came out of purposeful negotiations over curriculum. I am looking forward to hearing about "backmapping" to curriculum because in my local schools and neighboring districts the curriculum is the #1 concern of most administrators and many teachers. Often teachers have to express (in the design of the lesson, and then written on the board) what curricular standards will be covered by a given lesson or activity. The less structured path of inquiry may not be as well suited to such a structured design approach - I don't know. I think to make the argument for inquiry in today's educational climate we have to be able to clearly articulate how it relates to curriculum.

I am also looking forward to the "big questions" Harvey and Daniels hint at near the end of the chapter - I'm anticipating what is to come. I think the question that made me wonder referred to whether or not we are sure kids will/are ready to take responsibility for their own educations. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

I also wonder how ready we are to really let students choose their own topics for inquiry. What if we, or the teacher, doesn't find the topic to be worth studying? For example, if a student passionately wants to study a particular musician or celebrity or athlete or reality star (perhaps even one with legal or personal troubles), is that ok? (I am being provocative here on purpose.) When I did my I-Search project, we were told that it is not so much that we choose the topic - instead, the topic chooses us. Are we ready for that? Are our collections, our physical libraries, our schedules, our skill sets ready? What kinds of changes are required to really facilitate inquiry?

Just my thoughts. Looking forward to hearing what everyone else picked up from Chapter 1.

[Paula Daubert]

Kids are NOT ready to take responsibility for their own education. That's why there are teachers. But we can lead them to ask the right questions. If my son, who is in 8th grade, took responsibiltiy for his own education, he would do it on XBox. What do you say to a 1st grader?

If a student passionately wants to study the life of a musician or celebrity, I would say OK, but make sure he/she is really studying him and not just looking at pictures. What did he learn about the star's life? Often hearing aboutthe mistakes celebrities make is enough to deter the same bad behavior.

Having the right books in the collection to answer students' questions is a concern. But, like you, I was ofetn nodding my head all during the first chapter.

[Franki]

I have been thinking a lot about this topic choice issue in the library. Chris Lehman has a great new post on his blog called "Engagment vs. Empowerment" which helped me think through some of this (http://www.practicaltheory.org/serendipity/index.php?/archives/1220...). I think that if our kids can't take responsibility for their own learning, it is because we haven't allowed it and haven't given them the tools to do it well. Kids are naturally curious but in schools, they often see "research" as different from the real wondering they do outside of school. I think we often jump in and do the work when we don't see it as worthwhile. For me, research and inquiry is lifelong so what we want at 2nd grade is different from what we want in 8th grade. My worry is that when we pick the topics, and decide what is worthy to study and what information "counts" as important, kids don't really learn to love research.

I am in a K-5 building and when I think about this from an elementary perspective, I want kids to know that researchers develop their own questions and have lots of ways to find answers. Sometimes those questions are around a bigger topic as we collaborate and sometimes they are for your own personal learning. Different reasons for research. My big worry lately is that our kids aren't understanding that they have the power to find the answers to their questions if it isn't alredy "out there" somewhere. I want students to go around and take surveys, conduct interviews, build with Legos, etc. in ways that are inquiry based--so they can see the power of finding their own answers to their own questions. I also want them to find information from others who have thought about the same things.

My worry in schools is that the content seems more important than the research so the kids don't really learn the research piece. I think when they learn to ask their own questions and learn to find their own answers and find all the tools to help them do that, research becomes more authentic and then we can move them to more focused topics.

In the DVD that goes with this book the kids had topics around a bigger topic---one that the classroom was studying. That makes sense too.

I think maybe we need a variety of ways and levels of choice. For me, the main goal is research, not so much the content at the elementary level. Trying to figure out how to make that doable with the library schedule.

[Franki]

PS--I just read this post that is so connected to this conversation. http://teacherintransition.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/the-joy-of-forc...

Maybe our job is about opening up possibilities for kids with books, research, learning.

[Kristin Fontichiaro]

Great points, Franki. As an elementary librarian, I also see that there tends to be a focus on "content" more than the process. I put that work in quotation marks, though, because sometimes, in our mutual classroom/library zeal, I fear that we accidentally create projects that don't really deepen kids' interaction with content. Instead, it happens all too often that kids get the assignment/graphic organizer, find "the answers," and don't actually do any deeper engagement than they would answering the questions at the end of a textbook chapter. I'm increasingly worried about how early we start kids going through the motions. I heard a librarian once say, "Now we're going to do inquiry," and the whole class groaned. What?!? I thought. I peeked around the corner and saw that "inquiry" meant copying words from the librarian-selected Web site about a classroom-related topic. Sigh ...

[Joan Upell]

As librarians we don't have to have all of the "right" books in the collection so our students can find the "right" answers. The learning happens as we guide students through the process. Part of that process is locating information in a variety of formats from whatever sources are available - there are choices both within and outside the physical space of the library. Inquiry takes time and patience on the part of the students and the teachers.

[Annie Davis]

Hi Joan,
I'd like to sort of piggy-back on your comment. While I absolutely agree with what you are saying here, I also struggle with the fact that, to put it succinctly, kids want answers they can find for themselves. I tend to think this is more of a motivational issue for elementary students, who get frustrated and lose interest if they see that their peers have many books on sharks to look over, but they are interested in a topic for which there may only be one book (if any). I am oversimplifying to make a point about student choice. I don't think that elementary students will always be successful with wide-open choices. While there are always resources, just as you say, within and outside the physical space of the library, sometimes they simply can't read them. I can sit with them and help them work through the resource, but with a class of 25? I agree with what you are saying in my heart, but at my level, it isn't always possible. I think it's really important to work with students to guide them to good questions and good choices to help them choose a topic/focus they can feel successful with.

[Donna Bills]

Students do need to take responsibility for their own education. They key is how much and in what ways. A high school student should have more responsibility for the scope and content of his education than a first grader. There should be a gradual shift over the years as a child develops into an adult. I don't believe that the authors mean that a student sets his own curriculum, but that we use inquiry into his own questions to provide the drive and motivation for mastering curriculum goals However, even a kindergarten student has to take responsibility for his own actions within the framework provided. He is more engaged, focused and "on task" when he does.

After reading this chapter, I found myself taking a different attitude to some of my fidgety little ones' "intrusive" questions as a video began during the week before the holiday break. Instead of asking for quiet complience, I noted the questions and encouraged listening for the answers. I let them speak up when they heard information that would answer the questions. My "worst" student in the class (whose tteacher had warned me about when dropping off the class for their weekly library period) was totally engaged in the process and a joy to watch.

Of course if we had used with the most frequent question I heard that week to design an inquiry, we would have had to investigate how Santa gets down a chimney!

[Sharon Hermann]

I put two stars by the following sentence on page 12 in Chapter One:

"Learning, understanding, and remembering subject matter is a direct product of knowing how to think, work together, and wonder."

This sentence seems to tie it all together. Although teachers do tend to focus on content, teachers who also teach the skills and strategies for thinking and working together should find that content learning is maximized. And in addition, students will be better prepared to be lifelong, self-directed learners.

I'm interested in learning more about the authors'idea that most, if not all, student driven inquiries can be "backmapped" to curriculum standards. I'm also intrigued by the idea that "rich talk about text" and other forms of information improves understanding. So the better the collaborative interaction, the better the comprehension . . .

Some of my "wonders" are:

What are some ways to provide opportunities for "rich talk" within the constraints of time and class management?

How can we create small groups that are as "lifelike" as possible so that students are best prepared for cooperative enviroments as adults?

I'm looking forward to lots of great insights on these and other questions in the coming chapters and related discussions!

[Phyllis Cornwall]

Hi all. Am enjoying reading the book. Here are a couple of things that struck me from chapter 1- the 2007 study that found American 5th graders were spending 91% of their school day listening to a teacher talk or working alone! Yikes. Heres to us learning and putting into practice teaching kids to "think and work together... to help kids learn and practice strategies to comprehend what they read, hear and see and .. learn the social skills necessary to work in small groups" I'm looking forward to getting further into the book to see how the groups are set up to work for different learners. Yay to letting kids think and wonder and inquire and talk to each other.

[Susan E]

Kristin said:
"I fear that we accidentally create projects that don't really deepen kids' interaction with content. Instead, it happens all too often that kids get the assignment/graphic organizer, find "the answers," and don't actually do any deeper engagement than they would answering the questions at the end of a textbook chapter. "

Kristin, you hit the nail on the head. I am a K-4 librarian with 35 minutes per class for instruction each week. I know about the inquiry-based model, I want to do more, but there is always that time crunch, and too often, we DO go back to that "fill in the blank" or "fill in the graphic organizer" model. To prepare for 100 3rd graders or 80 third graders, all with different topics of inquiry, is daunting to me! (Ok, even with smaller groups, say 25 groups, that's still 25 google searches I would feel like I have to "preview.") :) But I have to make time.

I am planning on approaching my principal to lead a study group with this book next year with my teachers. It is extremely worthwhile. I think one of my favorite things about inquiry is the "real world" audience and real world problems. So many times I learned things in school, and I would think "why?" Inquiry erases those thoughts.

I am anxious to see Harvey Daniels' recommendation for good group work. Growing up I was often "stuck" in a group and I just hated it. Still do. I ended up doing all the work and others got graded on my work.

P.S. I thought you would all like to read this article - "What makes a Great Teacher?"
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/201001/good-teaching
One of the things the article states makes a great teacher is self-evaluation and RETOOLING of one's work.
So we are all on the right road in reading this book. :)