Reflecting on Chapter 2: What We Know About Comprehension (pp. 19-35)

[Kristin Fontichiaro]

Add your thoughts here ... or, if you prefer, start a new discussion topic!

[Donna Bills]

Here are some of my thoughts and questions regarding Chapter 2. First, I think the Comprehension Continuum chart is a wonderful resource to share with teachers as well as the outline of "How Proficient Readers Think as they Read, Listen, or View." These ideas can help librarians and teachers to help students to become more engaged and active even in more traditional listenening and viewing activties. I do wonder, however, in the example of third graders taking action on gun laws and other such examples in this book, how much of the questioning and thought processes belong to the students and how much they are mimicing the passions and biases of a charismatic teacher?

I have some skepticism about young students actually thinking like experts in inquiry circles both based on the writings of cognitive psychologists such as those by Daniel Willingham in his book Why Don't Students like School? and my own personal experience as a science teacher trying to lead students to reach their own credible conclusions from experimentation. Willingham argues that “Cognition is fundamentally different early and late in training.” He goe on to explain that students will not be able to think like historians and scientists with many years of experience in their work. Experts were all once novices. They had to learn certain fundamental knowledge and skills in order to develop the the thought processes they now have. Therefore thinking that you can lead students to rediscover for themselves the big ideas of various disciplines by their own personal inquiry may be a flawed concept.

[Nancy Staal]

It seems like to me that our authors are not expecting kids to think like experts. I think the authors are hoping to inspire teachers to expect and inspire more out of our students. Ellen Oliver Keene changed the way I look at students by letting me know that the wording I use to question students will help them dig deeper and grow to use higher level thinking. I think the authors hope that teachers and librarians will expect deeper thinking. An example of prompts teachers can use to help a student after a statement has been shared are used in the Units of Study by Lucy Calkins are: "I also think..." " In addition..." We can push our students in ways we never imagined! The truly amazing thing is that the students rise to our expectations!

[Beth Friese]

Hi Nancy. I love Lucy Calkins. I have to follow up on the prompts that you mention. I knew wording was important but it sounds like you have some specific approaches that have really worked for you. My most recent experience with inquiry was working on individual inquiry projects with 5th graders. They got to choose their own topics, etc. They really did think deeply and creating powerful pieces that spoke in their voices. I see the expertise idea, but also, like you, I think the authors are just pushing for higher expectations, and showing how those go along with inquiry learning. Sometimes the word "expert" seems out of reach for elementary students, as an example, but they can definitely develop some expertise that they can share with others. When given choice and room, my experience has been that students most often do rise to our expectations.

[Nancy Staal]

Hi Beth, Thanks for your comments. The unit, Writing about our Reading, has pushed my students in ways I never dreamed 4th graders were able to think about their reading. A really cool outcome of that writing unit is that our book clubs have improved. The kids are asking deeper questions of each other and themselves. Look on page 85 of our book for examples of questions that help students examine their own thinking. Have you read Peter Johnson's or Maria Nichols' books?

[Kristin Fontichiaro]

And it has to do with what we mean by expert. When we ask students to create new knowledge, as the AASL Standards ask, I always have a mental footnote that says, "that is new to them." A second grader's wow moments are different from a fifth grader's. A second grade "expert" is different from Steven Hawking!

The idea of "playing expert" has also been explored from the drama education angle by Dorothy Heathcote. Her theory, Mantle of the Expert, played with the fact that students rise to the occasion when they are asked to play roles while solving a problem. There is at least anecdotal evidence that this works (don't know about scholarly evidence). When I've done scenario-based work that sets out a problem for students to solve, and we've asked them to assume a role, it has been quite effective. (And there is room for inquiry within scenario-based work!) In fact, when my co-author and I were working on a book on science inquiry, we created scenarios from which the inquiry-based science notebooking process unfolded. It was VERY powerful, and when I went back to working on science without those scenarios, I found it much harder, because the scenarios also help smooth out gaps in prior knowledge. I'm rambling a bit off of the topic of experts ... so I'll stop ... for now!

[Donna Bills]

Nancy, I totally agree with you on the importance of the wording we use with students and the type of questions we ask. I, also, believe that our students can do much deeper thinking, than is often required. The authors of our book do seem to have a very practical approach that allows for a wonderful immersion period in the subject at hand which builds background knowledge. They, also, outline some very good activities in chapter 7 that help to build the skills needed in the inquiry process. Please add some of the writers and books that have inspired and helped you in your classroom to the resources thread. I am looking forward to using that to add some great materials to our school library's professional collection.

[Franki]

The book that has really helped me reflect on my own language with students--the messages I give them by what I say and how I ask questions is Choice Words by Peter Johnston. It is amazing and his research is embedded in real classrooms (Debbie Miller's being one of them.) I need to revisit that book and think about it and its relationship to this. I had almost forgotten about it!

[Nancy Staal]

Hi Frankie, Tell me more about Peter Johnson's book! I have been trying to be much more purposeful in my language as a teacher. For example: "Tell me more..." What led you to that idea?" Why do you think that?" etc. It's amazing the deeper discussions we have, the way I can track the students thinking, and the new learning I do!

[Beth Friese]

Hi Donna. I'm glad you brought up the point about bias. I wonder about that too. I figure that some, maybe many students will pick up the habits of the teacher librarian. If a teacher librarian is modeling lifelong learning, I think they should - but how do we teach them the skills and dispositions without imposing political beliefs or opinions? can we separate the process from the content? Great point. I'm not sure I helped much but I am glad you brought it up.

Im glad you pulled in the Willingham book - I haven't read it. I'll have to think more on this point. Background knowledge, which is brought up in the chapter, seems to me to be one of the real areas where librarians can help with reading comprehension. I like the disciplinary approaches to knowledge and "thinking like an expert" - although sometimes I wonder if we build the walls up between disciplines in ways that backfire.

[Donna Bills]

Hi Beth. I am not sure we can model lifelong learning and inquiry skills without sometimes wading into controversial waters. I think we need to be aware of the way our own beliefs relate to those of our communities as we lead students into deeper questions and select resources for them to use in their investigations. We, especially, need to be sensitive to social issues that tie back into the religious beliefs of our students.

Three points I have found where Willingham is in total agreement with our authors are: 1. the importance of background information to comprehension 2. "Smart is not something you are. Smart is something you get." and 3. Students only learn what they think about.

[Kristin Fontichiaro]

To connect Donna's thoughts to a few other authors ... in POWERFUL LEARNING: WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT TEACHING FOR UNDERSTANDING, Linda Darling-Hammond repeatedly brings up the crucial role of background information/prior knowledge/schema in cementing conceptual understanding. That is part of what makes student-inspired inquiry powerful to consider - students naturally build on their own understanding. It's when we impose that we forget that there may be a gap between what we think they know and what they do know! (Especially true in districts where there is a lot of student migration and not everyone has gotten the same "district education.")

Carol Dweck -- who is in this month's KQ -- has done significant research on fixed mindsets ("Smart is something you are or aren't") vs. flexible mindsets (the idea that we are always learning, intelligence isn't preset, you can "get smarter").

[Joan Upell]

We also need to be aware of the cultural and economic issues our students bring to school. The differences in background knowledge and just plain life experience have an astounding impact on comprehension.